Please go to Netflix and watch instantly "8: The Mormon Proposition".
I had only heard wind of what happened during the Prop 8 campaign, and most of it I thought was not true. I thought that the Church simply sent a letter to it's members. Oh, no. They had a leadership meeting that was broadcast, they organized a "battle" and a "coalition"...they...just didn't act like a Church. They acting like a political machine.
What happened to separation of Church and State?
Guess when it comes to equal rights, religion trumps politics.
I can't believe this.
Of course, the documentary is biased towards the gay community, but...I feel as if they got their facts pretty straight.
Just watch it and you see how much hate comes from members of the Church and...sadly enough, its leaders.
This movie was such an eye-opener for me. I never knew to what lengths the LDS church would go to in order to deny me my rights. I agree with you, all LDS church goers should watch this movie.
ReplyDeleteI was just about to say the same thing... it was definitely an "eye-opener." It also made me very sad. And then enraged. It was nice to see another perspective and to learn more of what really went on.
ReplyDeleteI'll be honest, I haven't seen it, and really don't plan to. I know that by watching it, it will only enrage me against BOTH sides of the issues. .. Against the Pro-Gay-Marriage side for not attempting to understand the motivations of the Church, and the Church side for going through such great lengths to stop gay marriage from happening.
ReplyDeleteAnd the attitudes and perceptions of members, unfortunately, come straight from the top. "Lucky Jake" whom I will presume is a stalwart member, is a sad example of how "ignorance is bliss." "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up (as long as it makes the church true)."
ReplyDeleteThose who are/were in the church and happen to be gay know full well the motivations and the why. That's what the movie is about. The church however refuses to entertain the motivations of the gay side, since it would of course threaten the existence of the so called true and restored church. If enough were to perceive any flaw with the corporate organization of Mormonism, such as it not being endorsed or lead by the Almighty, then its validity and therefore power in the world would be null.
But if you are Christian consider this... Would Christ, of humble birth, serving the lowliest of the people of the world violating the laws of the time to do so, lead an organization of his followers to attack and destroy the greatest commandment of "loving thy neighbor?" If such a thing were true I would never want to be involved in any Christian religion. It would be contrary what Christ taught of, period, full stop, end of debate. Love and let love and you will have but a taste of what Jesus meant and the unfathomable love God has for all of his children.
Thank you, Sean, for presuming to know who and what I am, or am not.
ReplyDeleteThough I would consider myself a "stalwart member" I am NOT "blissfully ignorant."
If you knew anything about me, you'd know that I am in support of Gay Marriage, and all Gay Rights that go along with it, in spite of my holding a Temple Recommend.
Why would I purposely watch something that would enrage me against BOTH (YES, BOTH) sides of this issue? I'm not in the mindset of TRYING to anger myself against ANYONE-- Church members, Gay activists, Church leadership. How's that for being Christian.
One more thing... don't presume to know me, or how I think. Thanks.
Follow the money. Any member is only valuable as long as he makes his donations.
ReplyDelete"What happened to separation of Church and State?"
ReplyDeleteWhat are you talking about? Separation of Church and State was to keep the State out of Church, not the other way around.
"Just watch it and you see how much hate comes from members of the Church and...sadly enough, its leaders."
Yes, MEMBERS of the Church. God gave a commandment, how the members (including leaders) interpreted it and executed it is another story.
"This movie was such an eye-opener for me. I never knew to what lengths the LDS church would go to in order to deny me my rights."
What rights were those exactly? You can get married. A marriage is a union between two people of the opposite gender. Besides, when did marriage become a 'right'?
"Would Christ, of humble birth, serving the lowliest of the people of the world violating the laws of the time to do so, lead an organization of his followers to attack and destroy the greatest commandment of "loving thy neighbor?""
He didn't violate any laws, he violated social customs. BIIIG difference. Loving your neighbor isn't the greatest commandment. And is loving your neighbor mean endorsing their sinful life? Didn't he tell the woman taken in sin to "Go and sin no more"?
"Follow the money. Any member is only valuable as long as he makes his donations. "
Uh....you get this...where? There are many members who don't contribute tithing or fast offerings.
Church involvement in the state would be the equivalent of Present-Day Iran and Europe for most of the Dark Ages, but hey, it works for some people.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious what Lucky Jake means when he says that the pro-gay-marriage side hasn't sought to understand the motivations of the LDS Church.
ReplyDeleteI thought that they did.
But, if you care to respond Jake, what are the motivations of the LDS Church is seeking to deny gay marriage?
First, they are still looking for a name and a biblical reference or proper translation for the concept of "priesthood also for females". Once same-sex couples are welcomed, the valiant female couples will demand the right to hold "the" priesthood.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the only real and unique product which the church offers to the outside world comes from the Family History Department. There is not yet appropriate software and charts for same-sex marriage family history.
Third, the sexual inquisition question card for bishop interviews is being revised.
Once these three minor issues are cleared up, the marriage policy will be changed.
Anonymous wrote "Separation of Church and State was to keep the State out of Church, not the other way around."
ReplyDeleteThanks, anonymous, for your eloquent illustration of historical dyslexia.
There are so many ways in which I could take issue with Anonymous #1, who recites so much that has already been quite debunked elsewhere. But I'm tired of doing that over and over. It's exhausting.
ReplyDeleteSo I'll just point one basic flaw in his statements. "God gave a commandment"? NOT. There was a single letter over the First Presidency's signature that "asked" members to support Prop 8 with their time and money. No Church action or discipline was or should have been taken against those who chose not to, and Whitney Clayton of the Seventy (a family friend of ours) said publicly that Church members were free to disagree with the request and to vote No on Prop 8 without fear of any repercussion for their church membership.
This was NOT a "divine commandment." If it had been, Clayton wouldn't have said what he said, and opposing Prop 8 would have put one's membership privileges at risk. I think history is already showing Prop 8 to have been one of the most serious self-inflicted wounds the Church has ever had.
Ironically, it may yet appear that such support _was_ in fact divinely inspired as a means of moving our country away from such rabid homophobia and toward greater tolerance and inclusiveness. Why? If the Mormon Church hadn't intervened in California politics and turned the tide against Prop 8, we wouldn't have Judge Walker's masterful analysis of why Prop 8 is unconstitutional at the federal level. We wouldn't have the same impetus for marriage equality elsewhere. We wouldn't have a case teed up for review by the United States Supreme Court. And given their previous decision, as an attorney I can tell you there is room to think they may agree with Judge Walker. If they do, then every state constitutional or statutory ban on gay marriage will be instantly nullified, and marriage equality will be the law everywhere in the United States.
Including Utah. And all because of the Mormon Church. Priceless.
I came across your blog while watching a YOUTUBE documentary about Mormons. I was able to connect with your story which touched me deeply. I feel like I should comment something here. I was born Mormon and until 5 years ago, I decided not to be Mormon anymore after MANY deciding factors. I have an interesting "coming out" story and my experience with the church was not as positive as yours. one day maybe I'll share it in a blog when I have time. For me, I learned I could not be a gay Mormon and be happy. I'm now 32 years old, and I've never regretted my decision to permanently leave the church. It took me a LOT of reading and studying to reach this point. My life was one HUGE oxymoron before I left the church. Full of confusion, but I started to study facts and not listen to my heart as much because feelings can deceive. And that's the truth! What I suggest is READ and study as much as you can! Start with D. Michael Quinn who is an awesome author and former gay professor at BYU. (Not that him being gay is important, but I just thought I'd throw it in.) A VERY intellectual man. One of the books he wrote is "The Mormon Hierarchy--Origins of Power." A hard read, but VERY informative and WELL documented. You'll learn things here about the church that you would never learn in Sunday school. And I mean never! (e.g. Joseph Smith's original church was founded in 1828 named "The Church of Christ." Then transformed in 1830 into "The Church of the Latter-day Saints" then into the present name in 1835.) This church has evolved over the years so much and no one seems to really care. I've come to learn to have a more fact-based belief system. It is VERY easy to become deceived otherwise. With a scientific outlook on life, it is more difficult to become deceived again like I was growing up as a child in the church. A portion of Quinn's books are his interpretation of the facts, but most are just blatant facts. I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best of luck! Thanks again for your insightful words, Seth
ReplyDeleteHomosexuality is against Mormon doctrine. Attacking Homosexuals is also against Mormon doctrine. A fine line we tread.
ReplyDelete